Journalists Ariel Bogle and Cam Wilson are the authors of Conspiracy Nation, an investigation into Australia’s radicalised fringes. In this interview, they talk to us about media ethics and why anyone could be susceptible to disinformation.
Writing a book with another journalist is a fascinating concept. Can you describe the process of working together?
We were lucky that we’d both worked in newsrooms where collaboration is common, so neither of us is too precious about taking feedback or sharing ideas. We had both been reporting on some of the same subjects—Australian conspiracy theories, influential groups and figures—so we shared a frame of reference to begin planning the book. We identified key themes, as well as a long list of events and interviews we hoped to include before we started reporting or writing—and then essentially divided everything. We’d meet regularly, review each other’s work, brainstorm our next steps, and then go off to report and write again.
Scheduling out the research and due dates for chapter drafts kept us accountable, and editing each other’s work over and over helped keep the book’s voice consistent (hopefully). Not to name-drop a brand, but keeping everything in the same place via Google Docs was also important.
How do you think Australia can shed some of its inclination towards conspiracy theories?
Research shows that perception of inequality and corruption can correlate with conspiracy theory belief at a national level. This makes sense—if things feel wrong and unfair, you go looking for answers. And sometimes for scapegoats. Some might find them in these febrile spaces online.
As journalists, we know there are real conspiracies. Greater transparency and accountability in our most powerful institutions are a vital way to fight back against the worst excesses of these ideas. As we discuss in this book, the media needs to acknowledge its role in targeting vulnerable groups using the language of plots and conspiracy tropes instead of doing its job of exposing power.
What were the most surprising things you learned about conspiracy theorists during your research?
The more time we spent reading, listening and meeting with people who’d gone down the rabbit hole, the more we realised that the distance between us isn’t so immense. It’s easy to dismiss ‘conspiracy theorists’ as unintelligent, uneducated or in some other way unlike us. But if we’re honest with ourselves, we often believe things for illogical reasons. We gravitate towards stories and feelings over fact.
If things feel wrong and unfair, you go looking for answers. And sometimes for scapegoats.
Humans often like to decide what to believe and then figure out a justification for the belief afterwards. Once you realise that your most ardent wellness beliefs—whether in the power of random supplements or that common colds are caused by being cold—aren’t necessarily grounded in rigorous science even if they feel right, it suddenly doesn’t seem so impossible that you could move towards other untrue or unproven ideas too, especially in a moment of great uncertainty or fear.
What would be your number one recommendation to government to help curb the spread of disinformation online?
We’re not sure we have a great solution for combating disinformation, but there’s an underlying factor common to the spread of disinformation, conspiracy theories and the overlap between the two. Both found fertile ground in mistrust already present in Australia. We have familiar cultural narratives and under-acknowledged histories of hatred that predispose some of us to certain ideas, such as a willingness to believe handsome, sun-kissed chefs preaching natural cures over scientists or to suspect that elites are overseeing a so-called ‘invasion’ of non-white immigrants.
Governments should address the core reasons for the shrinking faith in our institutions by being more transparent and accountable, by improving material conditions and avoiding the temptation to scapegoat the ‘other’ for political convenience.
Being immersed in this kind of material must have been an intense experience. Are there any conditions in which you could have been drawn to a conspiracy theory?
Yes. Everyone would like to think that they’re impervious to these beliefs, but there are too many cases of people who led otherwise normal lives until they ‘went down the rabbit hole’. Conspiracy theory narratives have always been with us—it’s human to dabble in these ideas, to even sometimes be entertained by them. Based on our reporting, it’s clear that some people get trapped in a conspiratorial mindset in a moment of crisis—there’s a feeling of powerlessness. Hopefully we’ll be able to avoid this, but you never can be too sure.
Do you think more conspiracy theories will proliferate in the coming years?
Unfortunately, the conditions are there. Conspiracy theories gather in social fractures and we have plenty of them. They are also a clear mask for all forms of racism and hate—a way to identify the so-called enemy—and you can see this mindset at work every day on X, TikTok and on the nightly news. It seems public figures are facing less blowback for indulging in conspiratorial rhetoric and playing to our worst impulses.
This Naomi Klein quote works here: ‘Conspiracy theorists get the facts wrong but often get the feelings right. The feeling of living in a world with Shadow Lands, the feeling that every human misery is someone else’s profit, the feeling of being exhausted by predation and extraction, the feeling that important truths are being hidden.’
You can pick up a copy of Conspiracy Nation at your local bookstore today.
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